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Contents:
  1. The Vatican’s Secret Life
  2. Gay Priests and the Lives They No Longer Want to Hide
  3. New book claims homosexuality, hypocrisy rampant in Vatican

As pointed out in the article, it is the pretense, the lying that is the problem, not homosexuals committed to the vow of celibacy. But it is the church that imposes that pretense and pushes people to lie. They even publicly stated so. John Mack: It has nothing to do with not loving the sinner. It has to do with not putting a person in a situation that would require extraordinary self discipline to refrain from mortal sin.

It is not loving to put someone in that position.

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Do you think heterosexual priests and nuns should be housed together? I think not. Jesus tells us we are a family. In what family do the sisters and brothers live in different buildings. As it is there are many monasteries and convents that opposite sex religious and non religious stay in due to retreats or renting the rooms to make travel cheaper. Most of these rooms have their own private baths and showers.

The Vatican’s Secret Life

There is nothing that can happen at night that can't happen in the daytime when two people decide to do it. Housed together or apart a person either cares enough about their vows to keep them or they don't. You are touting the idea of seminarians and novitiates , young men and women religious who have taken vows of chastity , living together.

Passion is a gift to be directed toward the Will of God. To deliberately put people of vows, especially the vows of Ordination, who have attraction to each other, in that long term situation is to deny they have passion. If they have no passion, they have no fire to redirect to their holy journey. You apparently put no value on vows, which include ALL of one's life.

It includes not wasting time on inappropriate distractions even if genital sex is avoided.. None other than Satan is The Father of Lies.. Actually, many Benedictine monasteries and convents WERE conjoined with houses of religious of the opposite sex. Abbesses once presided over monasteries, as well as convents. I myself know of a monastery in New Mexico that is also a convent. Sexual temptations are part of human nature, and sequestration of one sex apart from the other is not the way to deal with them.

Firstly, love does not require that the Church ordain everybody who wants to be ordained. Indeed, a big part of the discernment process is discovering if the man who wants to be ordained should be ordained. Many men are rejected for cause, and should be.

Gay Priests and the Lives They No Longer Want to Hide

Secondly, same sex attraction is itself objectively disordered. This is not a sin in and of itself, but men with objectively disordered desires are simply not fit for the priesthood. One should not ordain a kleptomaniac, an objectophiliac or a zoophile to the priesthood, nor someone who has any other kind of disordered desire, regardless of their willingness to take a vow.

You do not put an alcoholic in charge of a distillery, even if he vows to never drink again. Remember, we should avoid the near occasions of sin. The article is simply wrong. If you suffer from same sex attraction, you should simply be honest about that, and accept that you are not fit to be ordained.


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The fundamental error you make is in equating a properly ordered desire with an objectively disordered one. That one has disordered desires does not make one a sinner, but it does make one unfit for the priesthood. The problem is not with having a homosexual or heterosexual priest. We are seeing the same thing evidenced by the high divorce rate within today's society.

John, You seem unaware of our huge losses and huge amount of church closings.


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Rainbow flags and women priests are not what is causing the decline in all christian churches, membership. In fact, poor treatment of LGBT and lack of women priests and bishops are among the top seven reasons given for leaving Catholicism. There are different reasons for declines in some churches verses others but sexism and poor treatment of LGBT are reasons for leaving a church for most ex catholics. The majority of Catholics are not traditionalists. They realize that our church has changed laws and traditions in the past to correct itself and it will continue to do this in the future.

That was my point. Those that don't believe in the Real physical Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist don't have the Faith anyway. The problem is not that there are gay priests. The problem is that a significant percentage of both straight and gay priests don't take the vow of celibacy seriously. Allow men and women, straight and gay, celibate and married, all to be priests and these acting-out problems will go away.

Along with our hallucinated vocation crisis. Truth is we have never ever had a vocation crisis but we have had an intentionally mis-titled misogyny crises for centuries. Christ never said a word about homosexuality, and yet, no amount of ink spilled or arguments endured seems to quench the appetite of some Christians regardless of denomination for categorizing and judging their fellow human beings based on their gender and sexuality.

The Catholic Church is hardly alone in being consumed alive by sexual controversies and crimes, but we're certainly in the lead right now.

Where in the Bible Does Jesus Forbid Homosexual Marriage?

If we spent one tenth the energy focusing on the Great Commandment, recorded in Mark As it is, I comfort myself that the Church and the faith are eternal, and the Lord who said: We have compilation of writings from apostalic fathers and early church fathers that formed the church we have today.

The "compilation of writings from apostalic sic fathers and early church fathers" are not inspired, informative of their times and their concerns but not inspired. Some of the writers wrote very holy and informative tracts and history of the early Church. But still not canonically inspired.

I hear a lot of inclusiveness in the Gospels and concern for sinners, those with demons that drove themselves and families mad, the sick and the oppressed to bring them to and into the Kingdom of God. You're apparently uninformed of History. There is nothing extant written about the gospels before 75 years after Christ. The first known Christian writing is the Didache. The Gospels were reported orally. The Church did not come out of the Bible. The Bible came out of the Church. They were originally part of the Oral Tradition of the Church.. Bev, you really are very disputatious.

Did I say anything about when the Gospels were written versus when the Epistles were written. My argument is based on the status of what is considered inspired by the Church and what is not.

New book claims homosexuality, hypocrisy rampant in Vatican

The Didache was known at the time but the Church chose the current Gospels and Epistles as being inspired. Just because the Gospels started as notes and oral traditions does not mean that you can give the Didache or any other early writings more authoritative status than what we have now in the Gospels and Epistles. I accept what the bishops at Nicaea decided about all these writings at that time. Do you? It's hard enough to decide what is right and wrong without someone coming along and saying, "but what about this writing" or "what was said here".

Essentially its changing the rules, the goal posts. I have no problem with considering and even appreciating "these outside the inspired writings" and even including them in some of my meditations but when I want to be really sure I go back to my meditations on the Gospels and Epistles and try not to confuse the two. To clarify: A practice can't be legitimately impugned because it's not mentioned in the Bible.

The Didache isn't canonized and isn't considered inspired: Divine Tradition includes the whole of God's Revelation. Divine Tradition is inspired.


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  5. The New testament is credible because it's witnessed, or canonized, by the Catholic Church. There are many things in Divine Tradition not specified in the the Bible but the Bible is never inconsistent with Divine Tradition.